10 comments

  • justanother 1 hour ago
    This refers only to Flock cameras. In Pinellas and Hillsborough counties (probably others or even most, but I cannot personally verify), there are non-Flock ALPR cameras on every major intersection stoplight gantry, feeding license plate and vehicular-fingerprint data to regional LE "Fusion Centers," where Palantir's Gotham product absolutely is in use. This is of course in addition to FDOT's PTZ cameras also. Forgive a cynic for telling you that banning Flock on state highways is purely performative in such light.
    • chuckadams 1 hour ago
      The memo refers to all ALPR systems, and does not mention Flock at all.

      It's one page: https://fdotwww.blob.core.windows.net/sitefinity/docs/defaul...

      • asploder 1 hour ago
        I’m sure they’ll clarify this, but wouldn’t that include SunPass toll-by-plate facilities?
        • chuckadams 51 minutes ago
          Those are presumably owned by the state, so there's no permit to revoke.
      • justanother 1 hour ago
        In that case, marvelous. Here's hoping it's actually executed.
        • chuckadams 58 minutes ago
          This has the backing of the governor of the state, who I trust not one bit. But the removal is happening within 30 days, which gives him basically no wiggle room to undo it in a backroom deal.
    • spogbiper 1 hour ago
      "On Monday, Aug. 31, the Florida Department of Transportation (FDOT) issued a memorandum revoking existing permits for automated license plate recognition (ALPR) systems, commonly referred to by the brand name "Flock cameras," that are installed within the right of way of roads on the State Highway System."

      Very first paragraph. "Flock" is basically being used like "Kleenex" here

    • nashashmi 57 minutes ago
      I am thinking that Palantir has fully established tech and AI systems to be weapons of harm. All tech companies should now be seen as private defense contractors.

      We are sleeping here

  • asploder 1 hour ago
    Has there been any reporting into whether Florida’s Turnpike Enterprise has adequate data access controls around SunPass? They have ALPRs to operate the toll-by-plate system on bridges and toll roads across the state.

    In my view, that’s one of the better reasons to have ALPRs at all, but you do need strict controls to prevent misuse.

  • nashashmi 59 minutes ago
    What would proper governance of a powerful flock like tool be? It is a public private partnership. Public benefit. Public infrastructure. Private collection. Private software. Private computing. Private access.

    Private power.

  • mc32 2 hours ago
    This is definitely a good step, however, ALPRs are not going away unfortunately. They have and are and will keep getting deployed by private businesses. They are too valuable for them at this time. The likes of Wal-Mart, etc., will potentially sell information to brokers and so on and some aggregator will resell the data to whomever wants to use the data.
    • paimapi 1 hour ago
      I once interviewed for a trucking logistics SAAS vendor who installed cameras every X number of miles along every major highway/interstate to track shipments of freight. their moat was that physical surveillance network that they had already installed, cameras which scanned (like Flock) not just license plates but decals, looked for signals of driver awareness, new scuffs/dents/marks, collected EMF emissions to see if certain safety and satellite features were on, etc

      now they said they didn't sell their data to LEOs but their founders also literally used to work for the CIA (it was bragged about in the initial interviews)

      I wouldn't be surprised if companies of that kind are a dime-a-dozen

    • techdmn 2 hours ago
      Any business that puts an ALPR in their parking lot is a business I do not visit.
      • alexpotato 1 hour ago
        How would you know if it's there?

        I ask rhetorically but I also imagine that at some point there will be an app that tells you and then people will vote with their dollars to the places that don't have them.

        • yesfitz 1 hour ago
          DeFlock already tracks ALPRs in private businesses' parking lots. https://maps.deflock.org/
          • gruez 1 hour ago
            How do you know a camera is a ALPR camera? How reliable is the data, is it just random people's unvetted reports?
            • paimapi 22 minutes ago
              https://deflockilm.org/war-driving-for-flock-cameras/

              I know a couple of very tech savvy crews that war-drive and collect data on ALPRs in my city and they were the ones who mapped most of our city back in the day. there's been a big post-50501 DeFlock movement, though, so it's possible that more recent results are lower quality backed by lower subject matter expertise but it's not hard to set-up a good-enough scanner with something like Flock-You: https://github.com/MaxwellDPS/Flock-You-Android

              even then, Flock cameras are visually distinctive compared to the Clearview/Motorola solutions that are more traditionally orb-like or are just straight tube CCTV housing. if you see a long black camera attached to a black pole with a solar panel attached, 99.9% chance you've spotted a Flock camera: https://www.wpr.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/12/Flock_Safety_...

        • mc32 1 hour ago
          It won’t matter. Slow encroachment. Everyone has learned from Google that slow encroachment gets what you want.

          Price sensitive folks going to dollar general, wal-mart, etc., are not going to go shop at whole foods (assuming they even differentiate), and for people who go to ikea or Lowe’s for home goods, it’s not like they’re going to drive 30 miles out of their way to avoid ALPRs.

          We can get pols to not deploy them with public monies, but I think that’s all we can do.

          • cucumber3732842 1 hour ago
            >We can get pols to not deploy them with public monies, but I think that’s all we can do.

            If we tighten the 4th through 8th amendment case law to reign in the current wild west that is civil enforcement by holding them to the same standards for data access and imposing of penalties that criminal enforcement is the problem would be a lot smaller because then the tracking would be mostly limited to private interests who simply want to screw you out of your money but you can mostly choose not to do business with or will open up themselves to being undercut if they take too much.

      • izacus 1 hour ago
        Where are you gonna go when everyone has them?
  • jmclnx 1 hour ago
    I cannot help to think 1 or more politician or their children was caught breaking a serious law that they would have avoided if the camera was not there. So the fix is to ban the cameras.
    • cucumber3732842 1 hour ago
      Doubtful. Look at the Kennedys. The political class was never in serious danger. Worst case they have to do a favor for the department that has dirt on them.
  • josefritzishere 2 hours ago
    This is the wrong thing to do, but we need more. Mass surveillance is a crime against humanity.
    • stetrain 1 hour ago
      Fundamentally we need controls on how both the state and private industry can store, use, and share such data.

      Playing whack-a-mole with each specific type of surveillance and company involved isn't really fixing the issue.

    • Lord_Zero 2 hours ago
      What is the wrong thing to do?
  • shevy-java 1 hour ago
    It's almost like in the movie Minority Report. The state knows where you are at all times (well, not entirely true right now, but to a high extent true now, at the least for car drivers).
    • chuckadams 54 minutes ago
      More like Enemy of the State. Where's your phone right now?
  • thataccount 1 hour ago
    Florida is leading the nation on wise legislation where surveillance is involved in this example. It isn't doing too bad on income tax and other pain points either.
    • CSMastermind 1 hour ago
      Moving here after living in NYC for a decade was a breath of fresh air. I had forgotten that competent governments exist.
      • shevy-java 15 minutes ago
        Louis Rossmann said this too after he left NY but I feel that his content created when he was still in NY was "sharper". Perhaps a shitty government makes for better content even if they ruthlessly tax-milk the people there.
      • cucumber3732842 1 hour ago
        The local code enforcement situation is not great compared to a lot of other states due to how funding works (causes incentive to be predatory) but you probably won't notice coming from NYC.
      • thataccount 1 hour ago
        >Moving here after living in NYC for a decade was a breath of fresh air. I had forgotten that competent governments exist.

        Kinda sad since even though NYC was always iffy, it was never flat out as useless as it is now.

    • josefresco 45 minutes ago
      Counterpoints:

      Parental Rights in Education Act aka "Don't Say Gay" (HB 1557)

      Individual Freedom Act / "Stop WOKE" Act (HB 7)

      School Choice & Expansion Reforms (HB 1)

      Curriculum & Higher Education Governance (SB 266 / SB 7044)

      • thataccount 40 minutes ago
        Those are all reasons to like Florida.
  • abe94 43 minutes ago
    I'll go out on a limb here, all this pushback against ALPRs is starting to feel like throwing the baby out with the bathwater

    this article in particular was an interesting case for the benefits of ALPRs: https://www.worksinprogress.news/p/a-cops-case-for-flock

    tl;dr - actually useful for stopping car related crime like thefts, which has a wide ranging affect on other related violent crime, - is not the same as facial recognition, or phone tracking - abuse is detectable - constitutional arguments for ALPRs being a form of privacy intrusion are flimsy since they are mostly applied to public roads which have no privacy protections